Sally's Journal

There were a couple I recognised ALWAYS doing this in Oxford. They usually moved off quickly when I said "oh, same problem as last week?"

I buy the Big Issue, but only if I see the badge because I know of Big Issue sellers mugged for their Issues to sell.

When I lived in Exeter, it was possible to buy "a hot drink and meal" vouchers which could be redeemed in a good number of places, so you could give them. Again it felt like the food stamps, but one recipient said that it was better to have that than no help at all, and he understood that a lot of people didn't want to feed drug and alcohol habits, but as he had a couple of the vouchers already (he showed me), if I was going into the supermarket could I pick up some dog food please because it's better nutritionally for the dog. He got his dog food (after I checked what kind he'd like and how much, for ease of carrying and opening) and a large bar of chocolate.

*hugs*

Yeah, I don't know. Although I have friends who are super organised and responsible about helping people (Miriam, Ashley, etc) so I should probably ask them.

My thoughts are:

• I don't know how likely it is that someone actually needs a train ticket without some specific reason (running away, lost wallet, etc), maybe it's plausible, maybe it isn't.
  
• If they are not exactly telling the truth, the "let me buy it for you" dance involves both parties digging themselves in deeper: just as much as the appealee, the appealer probably doesn't know how to extricate themselves if it goes on too long.
  
• OTOH, if someone is running this line and isn't good at it, they probably do need the money: there are cases of people doing this because it's an easy way to get money, but they're probably smoother
  
• I don't know that giving people money for food/shelter instead of just money is actually better. Most people I know are against attaching complicated conditions to job-seeker's allowance or disability living allowance or child benefit, etc, on the grounds that even if some money is wasted, and even if some people are bad at budgeting, having an ignorant strange trying to micromanage everyone's lives doesn't help much.
  
• I may know the right answer and just not like it, in that the right answer may be "learn what's commonly a scam and what's most likely to actually help", but that's more work.
  
• In my head utilitarian friends are screaming at me for caring more about "middle class person in distress" than "person of any class who's lost their job and is homeless". Like why people responded more to disasters in NY and Tokyo than anywhere else. I think there's good reason for that other than tribalism: you can always help "people like you" without worrying you're trying to fill a bottomless bucket, and you get the benefit indirectly in "paying it forward". But I'm not sure it's moral to help "you whose lost your train ticket" but not help "you whose lost your job"
  
• Maybe we need more places people can go to make a sandwich, since a loaf of bread and some ham is so much cheaper than a sandwich. For that matter, even if local government can't afford to house everyone homeless (they probably should), surely it couldn't cost that much to feed everyone homeless in a sensible non-humiliating way? And have massive secondary benefits that no-one is begging for food. What's the worst case scenario? Someone low on cash or in a hurry comes in for a free meal? That seems... probably a good thing?

I don't think it is the same thing at all as food stamps and housing costs (though I am not truly against either of those, people do need some money too). The person asked you for a money for a purpose; you offered to fulfil purpose, beyond the call of strict obligation; not patronising. I would expect the person to have some idea about nearby B&Bs.

Anyway sounds like you did the right thing (and for the record, given the lady I helped hasn't made contact, I think I did the wrong one or at least the scammer-enabling one. Although there's a perfectly reasonable possibility that her story was true, she just can't be bothered to pay me back and assesses, accurately, that I'm not going to put a great deal of effort into it).

I think the difference between this and food stamps is the local/personal element.

If you are speaking one to one with the person on need on an individual level, they can ask you for the thing they actually need right now (like dog food or vet bills instead of sandwiches) and you can get that for them. If they have to interact with a faceless bureaucracy for it (and putting a face on the bureaucracy is too expensive most of the time), then they end up with things that are ill-fitting to their needs.

It's still a little patronising (because you're obviously judging the validity of their need) but the outcome for them is much better than in the food stamp situation.

I was once accosted by someone in Birmingham, wanting money to get back home. I felt a tad guilty about not giving him any ... until a couple of weeks later, I was accosted by the same chap again.

When I'm asked for money I give it some of the time, based on whether (I have time to stop and be engaged in conversation and) I guess they actually need the money. It concerns me that this policy may not be very good, admittedly. When I take the trouble to stop and offer to buy them food or whatever it is, I generally feel better about the outcome.

(Except perhaps for the chap who gave endless grief at the counter of Gregg's, bought much more than I'd agreed to, and then pinched a bag of crisps on the way out and dashed off without a word to me.)

I *have* been asked for money for drugs, by someone who said 'at least I'm not lying to you about what it's for' or something of the kind. (I don't think I gave it him, but I can't actually remember.)

Requests for money for travel/petrol have always turned out to be scams as far as I could tell to the best of my ability. No doubt sometimes people really do need money to get home, but I think they are swamped by the people who've discovered this is easy money. I'm often not very convinced by requests for money for somewhere to stay either - but sometimes I make a contribution. Once I told someone I'd come to the hostel on Victoria Road with him and pay for his room. We walked right across town to get there, and just outside he said 'Oh, can you give me the money now - wait here, you can't come inside as they have a strict policy against begging and I'd be thrown out if they saw you.' After having made such an investment of time I gave him the money, of course (substantially more than I'd have given him if I'd just agreed straight away), feeling foolish. I've still no idea what he did with it. But one lives and learns.

A guy once stopped and asked me for money for food, in such a seemingly desperate state he could hardly talk. I said 'look, come to the Van of Life' (it was late at night) 'and I'll get you something.' We walked down there together and he started trying to tell me his story, which I've forgotten but it was a sad one, and calmed down a lot when he realised I was actually listening. I bought him a hamburger and said 'You'd better keep this' and gave him the change from a fiver. A couple of weeks later he saw me in town and rushed up to thank me again. If you have time to listen to people it's sometimes as valuable as anything else you can offer.

One problem with food vouchers is that people can and do collect them and sell them on to others for money to buy drugs or whatever. So they have all the downsides of being patronising and not necessarily targeting need while actually solving nothing. I don't think it's at all the same if you offer to pay for someone's hostel room or whatever they've specifically asked for, if you have time.

My solution nowadays is to make a regular contribution by standing order to Centrepoint, who know what they're doing and who they're working with, and to usually give a token amount when I'm asked. Fundamentally what I resent is that if someone asks me for money, I feel that I am in the position of having to assess their need. I am not qualified to, I generally don't have time, and it creates an unpleasant dynamic to boot. I want to just pay my sodding taxes and know that someone else is going to make that assessment and do something about it. If someone asks me for a quid when I'm running to catch a bus, I shouldn't have to make the choice to either (i) privilege my bus-catching above their need to eat, or (ii) miss my bus.

Thanks for talking about this! I have thinky thoughts...

I do not often think of myself as middle class, given I come from working class roots, but I guess with my Cambridge education and professional career I must be now!

I will buy X when asked for money. Rarely though are people grateful; the majority of the time they seem long suffering and not wanting X, just wanting my money, which then puts my back up.

In Crete, an old woman lay on the ground shaking and mumbling incoherantly. When she thought no-one was watching, she got up and moved away at quite a spritely speed to examine her takings.

I had a bad experience at the beginning of this year when asked for money for a coffee, to which I said I'd buy a coffee from the cafe up the street. As we walked, the guy began asking for more and more money, not just £1 for takeaway coffee but then £2 and £5 and so on. I got cross and told him that I'd offered to buy the coffee but not to push it. He backed off a little and I bought a coffee and a kitkat while inside. He made a show of thanking me and asked for money, then backed off again when I glared.

Two minutes later, I walked down the other side of the street. Coffee still in hand, kitkat finished, he was begging again, and smoking. Ten minutes later I was walking back to the car park and came across the same guy. He told me that I looked like I could spare more and that his need was so great that he needed it more than me.

I lost my temper.

People who have genuinely needed help have always been grateful for whatever help they get, whether hitchhikers or the hungry. To be told someone deserves the money I earn more than I do and that they have a right to it upsets me a lot. Hsving given something, I object to the core that I should HAVE to give more to a stranger. That makes me very upset, and prejudices me against helping in the future.

There are so many fakers, it seems that statistically I shouldn't give as it will usually be going for nefarious purposes. But still I try to give that for which one asks, to feel that I give some charity to the needy.